Our Lady of Belen Catholic Church

As we encounter artificial intelligence in our daily lives, Father Dave welcomes professor and author Dr. Joseph Vukov to discuss his new book, “Staying Human in an Era of Artificial Intelligence.” Dr. Vukov serves as Associate Professor of Philosophy and the Associate Director of the Hank Center for the Catholic Intellectual Heritage at Loyola University Chicago.

A listener named Matt asks a question of faith about the varying tones present in the Gospel.  “The parables seem to span from God's Kingdom is awesome and kind; we’ll go out after that lamb that's lost and leave the 99 behind all the way to the other end of the spectrum of, if you don't have enough oil in your lamp, forget it.   You're not coming into the house. Just love to hear your thoughts on what could be driving that spectrum.”

Father Dave says that Jesus and the Gospel writers all use different imagery to convey their messages, including the descriptive and symbolic language Matt mentions in the parables.

LISTEN: Is the God of the Old Testament Angry?

“Jesus and the Gospel writers are intentional about that, because it's not all just warm and fuzzy,” Father Dave says.  “Gospel means ‘good news.’ It's good news that we can be saved and have eternal life with God, even if we're sinners, but it's not a free ticket. Jesus commands us to love one another, to wash one another's feet. He commands us to pick up our cross and to be other- centered and to pray for our enemies. All of this is part of his message. And so what you're saying is some of the parables and stories run that gamut — some sound warm and fuzzy, but others don't sound warm and fuzzy.”

Father Dave adds that this spectrum of parables, from God seeming vengeful to being an all-loving God, is meant to challenge us and our notion of God. When it comes to God, he is not either or, he is both.  

LISTEN: Encountering Jesus in the Gospels With Professor William Mattison

“The issue,” Father Dave says, “is that in our more finite human minds, it's hard for us to believe that it’s all true. We want God either to be mean or to be nice and brotherly, and it doesn't make sense that he can be, or we can be, held to a standard that includes both.”

“The Gospel message includes the idea that no matter how much we’ve sinned, God forgives us and offers us his grace. But the Gospel message also includes standards for living in the kingdom of God.  Christ will be our ultimate judge, particularly at the end of our lives and at the end of time,” Father Dave reminds us. 

A listener named Brad asks a question of faith: “Outside of Lent, if we choose the penance option, what are some examples of penance to choose from?”

Father Dave begins by explaining what Brad means by the “penance option.”  

“Prior to the Second Vatican Council in the ‘60s, Catholics would have been very familiar with abstaining from eating meat every Friday of the year. We celebrate Friday as the day that Christ gave up his life for us. Good Friday is the day he hung on the cross and died. And so Fridays, we try to recognize that a bit in our actual living of our daily life. There was a decision made at the Second Vatican Council that we should still recognize Fridays in some way. We should realize that it's a day for remembering Christ's death and do some sort of penitential act; some sort of sacrifice. So everybody used to just not eat meat.”

Father Dave explains that the Second Vatican Council confirmed that Catholics no longer have to abstain from meat on Fridays, but every Catholic is required to do some sort of penance to commemorate Christ’s death.  

So what are some examples of penitential actions Catholics can do? “It would be anything that might be a little bit of a sacrifice,” Father Dave says. “It doesn't have to be really difficult. It's not supposed to match the thing that we're remembering. We don't have to be hanging on the cross and dying for someone else. It could be something as simple as, Here's something that I usually do in my everyday life, but I'm gonna skip it on Fridays.”   

Father Dave goes on to say that a penitential act on a Friday doesn’t have to be a huge sacrifice. For example, it could be doing something charitable or adding more prayer to your day.  “I think the spirit behind why the Church invited us to be more broad and more creative with this is that some people might choose to do something like go to daily Mass if they don't normally go to daily Mass or pray the Rosary if they don't normally pray the Rosary every day. So the idea would be that on Friday, we're recognizing and memorializing the fact that it’s the day that Christ died for us. We should have a sense of gratitude for that immense gift, and it could either come in the form of some sort of sacrifice, some kind of service for others, or in the form of a spiritual edification.”

Our temporary producer “Maternity Leave Matt” has a few more days before Krista returns to work, so he’s squeezing in some last questions of faith for Father Dave:

Matt asks a two-part question, “Are there ever times when you don’t feel like being Father Dave, when you don’t want to be recognized as a priest? And has there been a time when you didn’t want to be a priest anymore?”

Father Dave responds to the second part of the question first, “No, in my 24 years of being an ordained priest, and then six years of discerning before that, I've never really had doubts that this is overall the right calling for me.”

LISTEN: Fatherly Advice: Discerning Priesthood

Father Dave shares that in any job or relationship, there are ups and downs, good times and bad, but even in very difficult times, he’s never had doubts. 

Father Dave discusses a particularly difficult time back in 2002, when the story broke of sexual abuse in the Church. Father Dave had only been a priest for two years, and had experienced the priesthood generally perceived as a virtuous and positive vocation, but after that, things changed. “That was the first time I was experiencing it not being universally perceived by others as a positive thing, like when people were like, ‘Oh, you're a priest, that means you're a pedophile, that means you're part of this Church that's covering up scandal. Of my entire priesthood and even seminary discernment, that was a time that I was given most pause about, Wow, this isn't what I was anticipating. And is this really what I signed up for? But even at that most difficult moment, there was never a thought of well, let me get my resume together or that sort of thing. So in that broader sense, I have never really not wanted to be father Dave and not wanted to be a priest anymore.”

LISTEN: Father Dave Answers Questions on Priesthood From ‘Maternity Leave Matt’

In response to the first part of Matt’s question, “Is there ever a time when you don’t want to be recognized as a priest? Father Dave says, “I don't think you have to be a priest who's got a radio following to feel this way…I think it's a public enough role in general, even if you're just a small parish priest, that there's still a lot of expectations put on one in this sort of role. So yeah, it’s nice to have a little breather where there's not constantly that expectation, whether that means on vacation or maybe on a priest's day off.”

Even though it’s nice to have an occasional break, Father Dave has never wished to be anonymous.  

“It was just a few months ago that for the first time in my life, Matt, somebody actually spit in my face walking down the street. Even in a moment like that, it was not my first reaction to think, Oh, if only I hadn't been wearing the collar, or, Oh, if only I had chosen a different career path, or something like that. And this is only through the Holy Spirit's blessing, no great virtue of my own, that I was able to think that, you know, what has happened to that person in their life that has caused them to do that? As opposed to, hey, I'm really ticked off that you spit in my face. So, I mean in general, no, there isn’t a time when I don't want to be recognized as a priest.” 

A listener named Charles emails Father Dave with a question of faith.  “This weekend at our vigil Mass, the priest wasn't able to make it to Mass unexpectedly. What should we (the parishioners) have done? We have no deacon in our parish, and I was asked to lead a communion service. Was that proper?”

Father Dave explains that in the Catholic Church there is a protocol called “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest.” These protocols were developed by the Church because in many places in the world there aren’t enough priests to cover all the churches and all the Catholics on any given Sunday.  ‘Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest’ states that a bishop may appoint a person other than a priest to lead this celebration.

LISTEN: Why Are There Multiple Eucharistic Prayers? 

“Sunday celebrations in the absence of a priest are commonly called a ‘community service,’” Father Dave says.  “Typically, what this look like is Mass minus the Eucharistic Prayer, and [the service] could be led by a deacon, an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion or another lay person, depending on who the bishop appoints.  There could be a choir, readings, communion, and if there is a deacon, even a homily — because a deacon can properly preach a homily.”

In order for Holy Communion to take place, there needs to be enough consecrated Hosts in the tabernacle to distribute to people.  Almost every parish has a fairly sufficient amount, and in places where these celebrations are a regular event, they prepare ahead for it.

Father Dave notes that ideally most parishes would have a contingency plan in case the priest could not make Mass unexpectedly, but admits that he knows very few parishes that do.

“So in Charles' case, it's much more likely that there wasn’t a contingency plan. So could somebody read the readings and go to the tabernacle and distribute communion? Yes. There's nothing wrong with that, particularly in an emergency situation. Nobody gets in trouble. It's not against Canon Law. It's not invalid. It's not a sin. It's none of that. The Church is not looking to penalize people for having a desire to receive the Eucharist. Why are we having a three- year Eucharistic Revival? This is the goal. This is what we want. We want people to desire the Eucharist.”

LISTEN: My Priest Cut Off Confession. Am I Still Absolved? 

Father Dave points out that this kind of emergency situation that happened at Charles’ vigil Mass highlights the need for more education and awareness for parishioners because, in the future, these types of situations are only going to increase.

“So Charles,” Father Dave says, “I don’t know exactly what you did. It was not wrong to do it even if it was not by the protocol of the ‘Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest.’ Thanks for stepping up.”

Father Dave welcomes back theologian, Catholic speaker and author, and friend of the show Dr. Edward Sri to discuss his new book “What Do You Seek?: Encountering The Heart Of The Gospel.” 

Dr. Sri explains how the book emphasizes the good news of the Gospel and is designed to help us think about the mysteries of God’s love for us so that we can deepen our relationship with Christ.  

The book breaks down the Gospel into five parts which Dr. Sri calls (The 5 R’s): relationship, rebellion, reconciliation, recreation and response.

LISTEN: Feeling Stuck in Prayer? Dr. Edward Sri Shares Inspiration for Spiritual Dry Spells

“Relationship is really the fundamental building block of being a Catholic,” Father Dave says.  “Many Catholics today have this approach to their faith where they think, I know a lot of the facts and I do a lot of the pious practices. “I pray, I read the Bible, I listen to the Busted Halo Show.  These are all good things,” Dr. Sri responds. “But sometimes we can look at these things as checking off a bunch of boxes, right? And God doesn't want us to check off boxes, he wants our hearts, he wants us to trust him, he wants a relationship.” He continues, “Think about all that God has created — the universe, earth, millions of people — then he chose to create you. God didn’t have to bring you into existence.  God freely chose to bring you, not just humanity, but you personally into existence. Why? Because he wanted to delight in you and to share his love with you and to share his life with you. And that's the marvelous message of the Gospel.”

Father Dave moves onto the second part of the book, rebellion. “We have to be realistic about the fact that we, as humans, turn our backs on God's love a lot.”

Dr. Sri points out that we all realize that there is suffering, alienation, and great hardship in the world and that the secular world tends to project these problems outward, whereas Christians turn inward and acknowledge that we are part of the problem. “This is what the Church calls Original Sin, the idea that that humanity as a whole has sinned, and we each individually have joined in that and that's caused a wound in us. We have to admit, I'm not perfect. I have a lot of weaknesses and sins and that prepares me to experience the good news, the Gospel.”

LISTEN: Encountering Jesus in the Gospels With Professor William Mattison

Father Dave skips ahead to one of his favorite parts of the book, recreation. “God doesn’t just reconcile us,” Father Dave says, “God promises to make all things new.”

Dr. Sri responds: “As Pope Francis beautifully says, ‘God doesn't just pardon us like a judge. He heals us like a physician.’ That means Jesus wants to fill his Spirit in our hearts to change us. There's a beautiful analogy the early Christians use. If you take an iron rod and you put it in fire, it becomes red, it becomes hot and it takes on the characteristics of the fire. The early Christians describe that as what happens with our soul. Our soul is like that cold iron rod, but when it's inflamed by the fire of the Holy Spirit, through the sacraments and prayer, then we begin to change, we begin to take on the properties of God Himself. We begin to love like him, to serve like him, to sacrifice, and to trust. We live in his peace. We are more forgiving. We love like Jesus loves, and that's what we want.”

Marie Miller is a folk/pop singer-songwriter and multi-faceted artist and speaker who weaves together music, humor, and storytelling to convey God’s love for us.  She stopped by the show to talk with Father Dave about her new EP, “The Way of Love.”  

Marie began making music as a teenager, and has enjoyed an almost-20-year career of radio, recording, and performing success, including opening up for The Backstreet Boys and the Wallflowers. She’s excited to be releasing her first Catholic album in a long time. “My heart just kept getting closer to Jesus,” Marie explains. “I want to talk about Jesus and who I love and what I love — the Lord, St. Thérèse of Lisieux — so the writing came very natural.”

RELATED: St. Thérèse of Lisieux: Inspiring Us to Share Our Faith Stories

Father Dave asks about the record being inspired by St. Thérèse of Lisieux.  

“She's the patroness of this album; she’s amazing“ Marie says. “The Way of Love,” which is the title track, is inspired by a quote of hers: ‘How sweet is the way of love.' St. Thérèse talks about how even in our brokenness, and even when we make mistakes, God uses even those mistakes to pave the way of love. So when I was considering creating a Catholic album, I thought I can't do this. Catholic artists and speakers — they're all super holy and perfect. How am I gonna do this? And reading that quote, to me was like, hey, even in your brokenness, God will use it; he will use everything he can on the way of love — and so she became the patroness and inspiration for this record.” 

Father Dave and Marie look back at some of the highlights of her career, including sharing a stage with Andrea Boccelli and in front of Pope Francis. “That was so special. I've been blessed to get to do some really cool things, but you know, you hunger for more. So you compare yourself to other artists and think, ‘Wait, why did she get that tour?’ Right? But St. Thérèse of Lisieux, she wasn't trying to be the star. She was trying to make Jesus the star. And I love that and that's why I'm trying to follow in her footsteps.” 

LISTEN: Andrea Bocelli on the Faith Influence Behind His Music

Father Dave asks if it is more challenging to have a humble connection with God when you get more accolades and fame. “I wonder. Jesus has not made me very famous,” Marie laughs.  

Father Dave points out that although Marie is not “very famous,” there is an intentionality to that — that fame is not necessarily her life’s desire or goal. Marie says that while she occasionally has thoughts about greater success, “God knows who needs to hear my music and there's kind of a freedom in that, because if you give your music to God and you work as hard as you can, he knows where it needs to go. It's not just about me all the time.”

A listener named Sara emails Father Dave a question of faith: “First of all, I have listened since 2006. I love you all. Now you may find this crazy but I have been thinking about becoming Catholic since then! I am concentrating on the Eucharist because I get completely overwhelmed by the rules. Is this a sin? I feel it keeps me from Jesus rather than closer. I am in RCIA (Rite of Catholic Initiation for Adults). I have a wonderful teacher. I probably would have come into the Church this past Easter but ran into an annulment problem.  So do you recommend me focusing on the Eucharist?”

Father Dave says that the teaching of the Church recommends that all Catholics focus on the Eucharist. “The Second Vatican Council, building on the teaching of 2000 years that came before that, referred to the Eucharist as the summit and source of our faith.” The summit is the peak of the mountain that we are all climbing towards, Father Dave explains, but it is also the source of our journey to the top of the mountain. “The Eucharist is not only the top of the mountain, it’s also the backpack filled with water and granola bars and what fuels us. It’s the summit and source.”

RELATED: Busted Halo’s Guide to the Eucharistic Revival

Father Dave acknowledges that there are a lot of “rules” to Catholicism that can seem overwhelming but makes the case that the rules are there because of the human condition and original sin. “It's not a defect of Christ himself or the Church. It's just that we're like Adam and Eve, we tend to choose the wrong thing just by design. And so those rules are there to help us keep on the straight and narrow so that we can be focused directly towards the summit and source of our faith — towards the Eucharist.”

Most of the rules, Father Dave adds, are about how we live with one another. “On the subway, you can’t have your boombox blaring. It's not because I don’t want that person to experience the music, it's because all the other people on the subway may not want to listen to the same thing. So that's what almost all rules in any walk of life for humans are about. And I would say that's the case with the Church as well, that most of the things in the Catechism, most of the things in Canon Law are about how we interact with one another.”

RELATED: A Beginner’s Guide to Eucharistic Adoration

Father Dave wonders if it is not necessarily all the rules that are overwhelming Sara from converting to Catholicism but just one or two rules that might be a sticking point for her. He encourages her to focus on the Eucharist, but also to lean on others that have converted that can be good sources of wisdom and information. 

“So yes, as someone coming into the Church, focus primarily on the Eucharist. But like many things I think you'll hear in the Catholic Church, It's not either or.  It's not either the Eucharist or all the rules. It's you focus on the Eucharist, but we need the rules too. It's what we call ‘both and.’ It's both of those.”

A listener named Julianne writes to Father Dave with a question of faith.  “I’m a mom of two very active children who love playing and watching sports. Recently at a basketball game, my 11-year-old son turned to me and asked whether booing was a sin. I thought it was a really insightful question that recognized that the opposing team players (and referees/umpires!) are people, and that this is just a game; the booing or jeering is part of the performance of the sport. Or is it? As much as we may not want a team to succeed, we don’t actually wish ill will on them. This question is more directed toward behavior at a professional sports game versus a youth sports game (where spectators usually cheer for both teams, or at least keep things positive – can’t speak for everyone here, but that’s what we do). Could you help clear this up for us please?”

Father Dave points out that if you were to say derogatory things or jeer or boo at someone you don’t know, that would be uncharitable and therefore sinful. “Jesus gives us the big bullseye and that is, ‘Love everyone. Pray for your enemies. Do good to those that hurt you,” Father Dave says, “but is there a difference between genuinely meaning ill will, and kind of being swept up in the game?”

LISTEN: Ernie Johnson Talks Sports and Faith

Father Dave talks about how he’s been to college and pro sports games and heard fans yell terrible things at the players.  What he heard was sinful, but he acknowledges that context makes a difference. “I think it's different how we frame it for an 11-year-old,” Father Dave says.  “I think it's an important formative time to be teaching kids about good sportsmanship and morality, and Julianne's doing something right because if her son’s asking the question, he's getting some good moral formation either in the home or at church or wherever.”  

Father Dave also suggests fans can be just as passionate cheering positively for their team without ever having to jeer at or boo the other team. 

“Maternity Leave Matt,” who is a father of three kids, says that when it comes to his 7-year-old’s soccer and softball teams, kids are encouraged to cheer for their own teams, but some light “ribbing” is OK as long as it is not mean spirited or an attack on any other player. 

RELATED: Pray for Us Complainers: Transforming Our Word From Protest to Praise

Father Dave talks about the distinction between hoping the other team loses so your team wins versus attacking another individual. “In the Church, we'd use the Latin term, ad hominem,” Father Dave says. “Ad hominem means towards the person…so I think we can maybe draw the same analogy back here into this arena for Julianne. If the other team scores, and we let out a sound of disappointment, and it's a boo, I would be reluctant to call that a sin, versus somebody yelling out something personal about another player.”

Friend of the show, Jesuit priest, author, and editor-at-large of America Media Father James Martin stopped by Father Dave’s radio studio to discuss his recent meeting with Pope Francis, what it was like being at the Vatican with a number of famous comedians, and more. 

On Friday June 14, Pope Francis met with a number of comedians from multiple countries including Jimmy Fallon, Stephen Colbert, Whoopi Goldberg, Chris Rock, and Jim Gaffigan to name a few.  The meeting, according to the Vatican’s Dicastery for Communication, was intended to “establish a link” between the Catholic Church and such artists and aimed to "celebrate the beauty of human diversity ... [and] promote a message of peace, love and solidarity." 

LISTEN: Catholic Comedian Judy McDonald on Humor in Difficult Times

Father James Martin is a consultor to the Vatican’s Dicastery for Communication and explains to Father Dave how he became involved.  “I knew about the comedians thing about two months before they met with the pope,” Father James says.  “It was organized very quickly.  They wanted to do it before the Synod in October. The Dicastery for Culture and Education put it together, and I helped them out with the U.S. comedians.”

Father Dave asks, “So they are over there in Rome and they think to themselves, who knows comedians over in the states? Boom, Father Jim Martin.” “Pretty Much!,” Father Jim replies.

Father Jim explains that the Dicastery for Culture and Education initially sent him a long list of over 50 comedians and humorists and asked him to narrow it down. “I talked to Stephen Colbert and Jim Gaffigan, who I know, and I said help me pick the people who are really kind of the most respected among your peers because we had to narrow it down, and then the Vatican approved it.”

Father Jim adds that there was no litmus test for the comedians who were picked.  They did not have to be Catholic; it didn’t matter if they had said negative things about Pope Francis or the Catholic Church.  It was more about the biggest names who are most respected in their field. 

RELATED: Misheard During Mass: Parents Shared 

Despite the gathering’s quick organization, Father Jim was very happy with how it all worked out. “One of the things that was very moving for me was everyone was really honored and happy to be there.  Comedians can be a little cynical sometimes, but they were really happy to be at the Vatican meeting with the Pope and were all quite moved.”

Father Jim also spoke with Father Dave about his one-on-one hour-long meeting with the pope while he was in Rome.  “We talked about two things which I can say. We talked about his comments about gay priests, which were very much in the news, and we talked about the U.S. Church.”  

Father Jim continues, “We had a very open and honest conversation about his comments about gay priests and one of the things I wanted to share was at the comedians meeting, everybody went up and shook his [Pope Francis’] hand and I went up to him, and I posted a video of this, and I said, thank you very much. And he pulls me back and he says, ‘Thank you for that conversation the other day. I really appreciated it.’ And I thought, now that's really unusual, like, thank you for a conversation that was difficult and challenging. He didn't have to say that. So I just think that's a sign of how open he is. He's learning. He listens.”